WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.960 - [Narrator] Well I'm presenting today, 2 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:04.540 hopefully will be a more micro. 3 00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:07.820 So practice and service led kind of a response 4 00:00:07.820 --> 00:00:10.140 to the questions that are asked about context, 5 00:00:10.140 --> 00:00:11.483 complexity and change. 6 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.650 And I will try and go through the slides and do that. 7 00:00:15.650 --> 00:00:18.740 Why I've realized is I've been very wordy in my slides. 8 00:00:18.740 --> 00:00:20.394 Hopefully I can spin through and try 9 00:00:20.394 --> 00:00:24.120 and get us back to more of a timely response. 10 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:25.280 So we're future men. 11 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:27.280 We used to be known as work and move men 12 00:00:28.121 --> 00:00:31.271 and reflect on what was said by the last presenters. 13 00:00:31.271 --> 00:00:34.070 That was really important than working 14 00:00:34.070 --> 00:00:35.950 with men not working for men. 15 00:00:35.950 --> 00:00:37.947 As some colleague of mine used to say 16 00:00:37.947 --> 00:00:39.250 when they were trying to get in touch with us. 17 00:00:39.250 --> 00:00:41.490 I heard you out for work and for men working with men. 18 00:00:41.490 --> 00:00:43.319 And I think, especially in terms 19 00:00:43.319 --> 00:00:45.810 of tackling services for men and boys 20 00:00:45.810 --> 00:00:46.794 it's important to make that distinction sometimes 21 00:00:46.794 --> 00:00:50.170 for those who have been disenfranchised 22 00:00:50.170 --> 00:00:52.370 or who are marginalized, that, 23 00:00:52.370 --> 00:00:54.320 We're here to do something with you. 24 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:56.794 And I think we're here to empower you 25 00:00:56.794 --> 00:00:58.800 and to work with you and to advocate for you. 26 00:00:58.800 --> 00:01:01.170 And, here's the bits we can do 27 00:01:01.170 --> 00:01:02.800 but here are the things that you need to do 28 00:01:02.800 --> 00:01:05.610 and together hopefully we'll get to a better place, 29 00:01:05.610 --> 00:01:06.830 and that's encapsulated in our vision 30 00:01:06.830 --> 00:01:07.820 and mission about our future. 31 00:01:07.820 --> 00:01:09.830 Every boy, every man, and therefore everyone 32 00:01:09.830 --> 00:01:12.627 hopefully what we want to do is inspire boys 33 00:01:12.627 --> 00:01:14.640 and men to become more dynamic. 34 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:15.930 Help them to have the confidence, to explore 35 00:01:15.930 --> 00:01:17.800 and discover what it means to be a man 36 00:01:17.800 --> 00:01:20.240 to them in the 21st century, 37 00:01:20.240 --> 00:01:22.130 in a way that is conducive to the rest of us 38 00:01:22.130 --> 00:01:25.850 are having a better community and outcome. 39 00:01:25.850 --> 00:01:29.210 So we do that by using a set of seven characteristics 40 00:01:29.210 --> 00:01:30.620 which are not exclusive to masculinity 41 00:01:30.620 --> 00:01:32.120 equal to boys and men. 42 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:37.100 But are kind of seven that we honed in on 43 00:01:37.100 --> 00:01:39.040 through our practice over the years 44 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.040 and review and research in this area. 45 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:43.900 And if we can try and instill some 46 00:01:43.900 --> 00:01:45.750 of these in all of the work practice that we do 47 00:01:45.750 --> 00:01:48.400 not just with fathers, we work across other strands as well. 48 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:50.590 We've boys in school that are transitioning 49 00:01:50.590 --> 00:01:52.040 from primary to secondary school. 50 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:53.350 We're around conflict resolution 51 00:01:53.350 --> 00:01:55.840 and violence reduction and out in the community 52 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:56.673 with youth hubs. 53 00:01:56.673 --> 00:01:59.170 And we've, we've young men who are neat. 54 00:01:59.170 --> 00:02:01.010 The fiber strand, I suppose 55 00:02:01.010 --> 00:02:03.810 kind of cuts across all of those 56 00:02:03.810 --> 00:02:05.110 because we work with fathers who 57 00:02:05.110 --> 00:02:06.949 they've got young children. 58 00:02:06.949 --> 00:02:08.100 So we influence in two generations 59 00:02:08.100 --> 00:02:09.160 not just the father themselves 60 00:02:09.160 --> 00:02:10.890 but their children and by definition, 61 00:02:10.890 --> 00:02:14.030 their current or ex partners as well. 62 00:02:14.030 --> 00:02:16.310 But also what we're doing as well 63 00:02:16.310 --> 00:02:18.410 as is working with, younger dads 64 00:02:18.410 --> 00:02:20.180 as was spoken about before, who are still 65 00:02:20.180 --> 00:02:22.130 kind of in that transitionary period themselves 66 00:02:22.130 --> 00:02:25.100 between childhood and adulthood. 67 00:02:25.100 --> 00:02:26.930 And some of those stages have been jumbled 68 00:02:26.930 --> 00:02:28.580 up and therefore given themselves 69 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:30.250 and everyone else around them, often sometimes 70 00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:32.178 extra challenges for getting them to where 71 00:02:32.178 --> 00:02:34.370 they want to be and where we want them to be 72 00:02:34.370 --> 00:02:36.393 as productive members of society. 73 00:02:36.393 --> 00:02:38.180 So you can see for yourself there 74 00:02:38.180 --> 00:02:39.640 some of the characteristics of resilience, 75 00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:41.330 inclusiveness really important in this day 76 00:02:41.330 --> 00:02:44.230 and age that, although we live in a 21st century. 77 00:02:44.230 --> 00:02:47.100 And there has been massive shifts in our views 78 00:02:47.100 --> 00:02:50.480 on many things, gender roles, sexuality 79 00:02:50.480 --> 00:02:52.048 even since when I was a young man 80 00:02:52.048 --> 00:02:53.780 in quite a short period of time 81 00:02:53.780 --> 00:02:54.992 actually a long period of time that people 82 00:02:54.992 --> 00:02:57.250 the young men with would say you're quite old now. 83 00:02:57.250 --> 00:02:58.560 But anyway, the point being is 84 00:02:58.560 --> 00:02:59.860 is there were a lot of changes. 85 00:02:59.860 --> 00:03:02.080 And I think young people lead 86 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:03.280 on this kind of stuff in saying 87 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:05.370 to us things that used to bother your generation 88 00:03:05.370 --> 00:03:06.203 don't bother us at all. 89 00:03:06.203 --> 00:03:07.230 We're quite happy with them. 90 00:03:07.230 --> 00:03:09.220 But on the other hand, there are groups of young men 91 00:03:09.220 --> 00:03:12.230 and men within that who still have very old fashioned views 92 00:03:12.230 --> 00:03:13.195 because it's tied to their idea of what masculinity 93 00:03:13.195 --> 00:03:16.270 and what kind of man they want to be. 94 00:03:16.270 --> 00:03:17.470 And there aren't very many spaces 95 00:03:17.470 --> 00:03:20.380 for them to do the next thing, which is reflect on that. 96 00:03:20.380 --> 00:03:22.220 See, why am I holding onto these values? 97 00:03:22.220 --> 00:03:24.370 Who gave them to me and how beneficial are they 98 00:03:24.370 --> 00:03:27.909 to me, and curiosity, compassionate 99 00:03:27.909 --> 00:03:30.120 And, fundamentally nonviolence 100 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:32.050 is really important which goes against a lot 101 00:03:32.050 --> 00:03:33.250 of the messaging we see come from 102 00:03:33.250 --> 00:03:35.210 some of the strongest leaders in the world. 103 00:03:35.210 --> 00:03:37.470 Just recently, well and historically as well, 104 00:03:37.470 --> 00:03:39.580 but it's really important. 105 00:03:39.580 --> 00:03:41.977 So my particular strand is working with fathers. 106 00:03:41.977 --> 00:03:43.077 And why do we do that? 107 00:03:44.390 --> 00:03:46.580 And I won't go through every single one of these points. 108 00:03:46.580 --> 00:03:48.430 I'll just pick out a couple of highlights. 109 00:03:48.430 --> 00:03:50.990 But really, as we said in the introduction, 110 00:03:50.990 --> 00:03:52.370 men especially in this sector 111 00:03:52.370 --> 00:03:54.420 and children and families, and in engagements 112 00:03:54.420 --> 00:03:57.620 with statutory services are often secondary. 113 00:03:57.620 --> 00:04:00.620 They're often seen as risks to be managed rather 114 00:04:00.620 --> 00:04:02.883 than assets to be developed within families. 115 00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:06.323 So for themselves as well, they're often, 116 00:04:07.710 --> 00:04:10.310 being asked to step into a role by services where 117 00:04:10.310 --> 00:04:13.570 they expect fathers to be, the archetype 118 00:04:13.570 --> 00:04:16.340 or 21st century metro-sexual Daniel 119 00:04:16.340 --> 00:04:18.310 does everything works as a provider, 120 00:04:18.310 --> 00:04:20.340 is hands on with the nappies, does bathing, 121 00:04:20.340 --> 00:04:22.610 listens to the partner as well buy everything. 122 00:04:22.610 --> 00:04:23.443 And a lot of men never had 123 00:04:23.443 --> 00:04:25.230 that as an example in their own lives. 124 00:04:25.230 --> 00:04:28.100 The men we work with an are struggling to see that 125 00:04:28.100 --> 00:04:30.740 and find space to do that, don't know how to turn 126 00:04:30.740 --> 00:04:32.390 to their friends or their circles 127 00:04:32.390 --> 00:04:33.430 aren't necessarily that supportive 128 00:04:33.430 --> 00:04:35.930 about that element of their lives. 129 00:04:35.930 --> 00:04:39.090 And so therefore when things don't work out for them 130 00:04:39.090 --> 00:04:42.000 they don't necessarily have the systems available to them 131 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:43.650 both in their own personal lives 132 00:04:43.650 --> 00:04:46.120 or within wider systems of support 133 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.600 to be able to help them something go on 134 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:52.307 to make mistakes some end up separated 135 00:04:52.307 --> 00:04:53.930 from their children and don't know how 136 00:04:53.930 --> 00:04:56.260 to manage relationships 137 00:04:56.260 --> 00:04:58.660 or the dynamics of relationship with an ex partner 138 00:04:58.660 --> 00:05:01.710 to ensure that they're still playing a contributory role. 139 00:05:01.710 --> 00:05:02.910 They don't necessarily know 140 00:05:02.910 --> 00:05:04.650 or value all of the responsibilities. 141 00:05:04.650 --> 00:05:06.930 And what are the benefits of playing an active 142 00:05:06.930 --> 00:05:07.900 role in your children's lives. 143 00:05:07.900 --> 00:05:10.630 So we work with them to help them 144 00:05:10.630 --> 00:05:11.930 kind of understand that. 145 00:05:11.930 --> 00:05:14.410 And at the far end of the scale, where we're 146 00:05:14.410 --> 00:05:16.040 at the sharp end basically when things really 147 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:16.900 do start to go wrong. 148 00:05:16.900 --> 00:05:18.700 We try and work with those men 149 00:05:18.700 --> 00:05:21.710 to address healthy relationships and domestic abuse. 150 00:05:21.710 --> 00:05:25.210 So that as was mentioned, we can, first of all 151 00:05:25.210 --> 00:05:26.960 hold men accountable for their 152 00:05:26.960 --> 00:05:30.270 their behavior in this way, in terms of support 153 00:05:30.270 --> 00:05:32.170 in the criminal process, if that's where it needs 154 00:05:32.170 --> 00:05:35.430 to go and ensure that there is proper sanctioned. 155 00:05:35.430 --> 00:05:37.070 And if not, and if it's below that threshold 156 00:05:37.070 --> 00:05:40.295 ensuring that these men aren't just marginalized 157 00:05:40.295 --> 00:05:42.850 and giving them kind of exclusion orders important aside. 158 00:05:42.850 --> 00:05:44.070 I said, when he's away from that family 159 00:05:44.070 --> 00:05:45.380 so we don't need to worry about him anymore 160 00:05:45.380 --> 00:05:47.560 because long-term, we know that it's not effective. 161 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:49.510 These mum will form new relationships with new women 162 00:05:49.510 --> 00:05:51.920 and have more children, and we're still having an impact 163 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:53.220 on the lives of their current children 164 00:05:53.220 --> 00:05:55.200 and ex partner's lives, forevermore. 165 00:05:55.200 --> 00:05:56.757 These poor outcomes sort of father themselves 166 00:05:56.757 --> 00:06:01.210 and children primarily cost all of us as a society money. 167 00:06:01.210 --> 00:06:02.340 That tax money that was referred 168 00:06:02.340 --> 00:06:03.830 to earlier on gets wasted. 169 00:06:03.830 --> 00:06:06.360 I'm sure you all know the cost associated 170 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:09.770 with the child protection assessment or a process 171 00:06:09.770 --> 00:06:11.870 or six months involved with that process 172 00:06:11.870 --> 00:06:13.750 ends up being thousands and thousands of pounds. 173 00:06:13.750 --> 00:06:16.190 And we found that if you can kind of spend some 174 00:06:16.190 --> 00:06:19.210 of that money earlier on in their pathway of life 175 00:06:19.210 --> 00:06:21.688 you can prevent a lot of that escalation. 176 00:06:21.688 --> 00:06:24.110 And morally from the Memorial background of it. 177 00:06:24.110 --> 00:06:27.490 Well, we know in terms of, I have to balance 178 00:06:27.490 --> 00:06:29.040 this thing between the financial benefits 179 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.784 because we have to sell our services as a charity 180 00:06:31.784 --> 00:06:34.130 to people who would fund our work 181 00:06:34.130 --> 00:06:36.210 whether that be local authorities, central government 182 00:06:36.210 --> 00:06:39.680 or different arms or elements of the welfare state 183 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:41.670 or increasingly in this day and age 184 00:06:41.670 --> 00:06:45.410 we have austerity charitable, charitable trusts 185 00:06:45.410 --> 00:06:48.540 and arms of of big business and of corporate society 186 00:06:48.540 --> 00:06:50.824 who we have to win the hearts and minds off. 187 00:06:50.824 --> 00:06:52.640 So as well as the financial benefits, we have to talk 188 00:06:52.640 --> 00:06:55.180 about the better outcomes and the moral imperative. 189 00:06:55.180 --> 00:06:56.090 And you can see there, some 190 00:06:56.090 --> 00:06:57.940 of these are Flora's outcomes that are, 191 00:06:57.940 --> 00:07:00.640 15 years old now that that demonstrate 192 00:07:00.640 --> 00:07:02.450 that children with positively involved fathers 193 00:07:02.450 --> 00:07:04.713 have a whole raft of better outcomes. 194 00:07:05.730 --> 00:07:08.460 If we can get there that's to be, 195 00:07:08.460 --> 00:07:11.260 involved in a way we want them to be. 196 00:07:11.260 --> 00:07:12.950 So what we do is we engage young fathers 197 00:07:12.950 --> 00:07:15.253 and others from minority groups has already says, 198 00:07:16.830 --> 00:07:19.030 key moments in their life, transitional points in our lives. 199 00:07:19.030 --> 00:07:20.420 And fatherhood is being one of those 200 00:07:20.420 --> 00:07:22.660 when men who we know are not necessarily 201 00:07:22.660 --> 00:07:25.540 conditioned as well as, or experienced 202 00:07:25.540 --> 00:07:28.700 or do not find it internally as easy to ask for help 203 00:07:28.700 --> 00:07:32.140 because of models of masculinity that we've been given. 204 00:07:32.140 --> 00:07:34.203 These, transitional moments are when 205 00:07:34.203 --> 00:07:35.470 they're more open to change or 206 00:07:35.470 --> 00:07:37.340 when they're more open to kind of accept hand 207 00:07:37.340 --> 00:07:38.173 or actually to actually reach out 208 00:07:38.173 --> 00:07:40.900 and say to someone I'm struggling with this, I need help. 209 00:07:40.900 --> 00:07:43.490 It may not be the same issues that we 210 00:07:43.490 --> 00:07:45.420 as professionals identify as their problems. 211 00:07:45.420 --> 00:07:47.420 I think he's a bit dangerous. 212 00:07:47.420 --> 00:07:48.920 I'm worried about his criminality. 213 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:51.150 He seems a bit controlling, moving into relationships. 214 00:07:51.150 --> 00:07:52.310 What the father ends up talking 215 00:07:52.310 --> 00:07:53.720 about is the fact I've got no money. 216 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:54.830 I haven't got any jobs. 217 00:07:54.830 --> 00:07:56.150 I don't know how to provide for my kids 218 00:07:56.150 --> 00:07:57.970 except for doing this, this nefarious stuff 219 00:07:57.970 --> 00:08:00.490 over here which I know is risky. 220 00:08:00.490 --> 00:08:02.390 How could someone help me with this? 221 00:08:02.390 --> 00:08:04.650 My housing is fundamentally very, very poor. 222 00:08:04.650 --> 00:08:06.480 And in living in London, there is no hope 223 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:07.870 for me to ever own my own home 224 00:08:07.870 --> 00:08:09.940 or even be able to afford rent. 225 00:08:09.940 --> 00:08:11.640 So, how do I tackle these things. 226 00:08:11.640 --> 00:08:13.414 And that level of hopelessness that gives men 227 00:08:13.414 --> 00:08:16.620 that feeling of this empowerment 228 00:08:16.620 --> 00:08:19.870 of I cannot affect the wider systems around me 229 00:08:19.870 --> 00:08:22.570 leads to a massive kind of disengagement from services. 230 00:08:22.570 --> 00:08:24.650 And I think we, and many others like us 231 00:08:24.650 --> 00:08:26.360 in the charitable set to have an advantage where 232 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:29.940 we are not seen as necessarily part of the state's response. 233 00:08:29.940 --> 00:08:32.100 And we can start to address that 234 00:08:32.100 --> 00:08:34.407 and start to change that and build 235 00:08:34.407 --> 00:08:35.930 really positive professional relationships 236 00:08:35.930 --> 00:08:38.630 of trust with this element of the community 237 00:08:38.630 --> 00:08:42.010 and then try and bring them into the wider discussion. 238 00:08:42.010 --> 00:08:44.490 As it says there, we want to break the cycle. 239 00:08:44.490 --> 00:08:45.800 Many of the younger folks we worked 240 00:08:45.800 --> 00:08:47.240 with that were known to services 241 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:49.543 as children themselves had younger parents. 242 00:08:50.934 --> 00:08:51.767 And we want to break that. 243 00:08:51.767 --> 00:08:53.350 And in terms of older dads who weren't necessarily 244 00:08:53.350 --> 00:08:55.150 young dads, again we want to break the cycle 245 00:08:55.150 --> 00:08:58.120 of them just being seen as a secondary parent 246 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:01.640 who comes in, when is when there are problems 247 00:09:01.640 --> 00:09:03.560 you want to kind of change the life course 248 00:09:03.560 --> 00:09:05.060 of fathers that were supporting men 249 00:09:05.060 --> 00:09:06.930 from pregnancy all the way through 250 00:09:06.930 --> 00:09:09.753 and support and positive images of the idea of fathers. 251 00:09:09.753 --> 00:09:13.247 You can see some of the practice elements we do. 252 00:09:13.247 --> 00:09:14.720 And one of the key ones I pick 253 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:17.350 out from that is a current pilot we're involved 254 00:09:17.350 --> 00:09:18.272 with at the moment, which is delivering a caring dads pilot 255 00:09:18.272 --> 00:09:20.362 as part of a project called 256 00:09:20.362 --> 00:09:23.790 what works with children and social care 257 00:09:23.790 --> 00:09:25.280 in a South London Borough. 258 00:09:25.280 --> 00:09:27.500 And basically, although 259 00:09:27.500 --> 00:09:29.310 over the many years I've been doing this work, 260 00:09:29.310 --> 00:09:32.120 I have been in wanted to promote 261 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:33.270 a positive image of fathers. 262 00:09:33.270 --> 00:09:35.970 I didn't want to always kind of move toward, yes 263 00:09:35.970 --> 00:09:37.850 we work with dads who are domestically abusive. 264 00:09:37.850 --> 00:09:39.780 That is a very specialist part 265 00:09:39.780 --> 00:09:41.250 of the work that needs to be done. 266 00:09:41.250 --> 00:09:42.830 But we found over the years that more and more 267 00:09:42.830 --> 00:09:44.980 of our cohort were only turning up 268 00:09:44.980 --> 00:09:46.630 or only being made aware of services 269 00:09:46.630 --> 00:09:48.320 when things had got that bad. 270 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:50.130 So, and a significant number 271 00:09:50.130 --> 00:09:52.150 of core or already had those issues. 272 00:09:52.150 --> 00:09:53.670 Lot of concerns around that in our thing. 273 00:09:53.670 --> 00:09:56.770 So we decided we'd work with the local authority 274 00:09:56.770 --> 00:09:59.270 and be part of the response to men, with families 275 00:09:59.270 --> 00:10:01.370 as part of a wider response around domestic abuse. 276 00:10:01.370 --> 00:10:04.480 There were services set up for women in the freedom program. 277 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:07.090 Thena escape the trap and many programs 278 00:10:07.090 --> 00:10:08.440 for children as well who have witnessed 279 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.960 and been subject to domestic abusive in the homes. 280 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:13.420 But there were never any programs 281 00:10:13.420 --> 00:10:15.236 for the perpetrators of that abuse 282 00:10:15.236 --> 00:10:17.360 or the people that we were concerned that may be 283 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:21.710 perpetrating abuse and on a scalable level as well. 284 00:10:21.710 --> 00:10:23.390 It was a one size fits all. 285 00:10:23.390 --> 00:10:25.700 Well, if they were concerned about domestic violence 286 00:10:25.700 --> 00:10:28.240 the best thing to do, which is really inequitable 287 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.870 in many ways is put all of the responsibility 288 00:10:30.870 --> 00:10:32.410 on the parent that engages with us. 289 00:10:32.410 --> 00:10:33.984 I, the mother say to her, look 290 00:10:33.984 --> 00:10:35.980 it's your responsibility to make sure 291 00:10:35.980 --> 00:10:37.010 that man isn't around you, 292 00:10:37.010 --> 00:10:38.400 we'll give you these programs 293 00:10:38.400 --> 00:10:40.160 but if you let him back in your life, 294 00:10:40.160 --> 00:10:41.380 we might start some proceedings 295 00:10:41.380 --> 00:10:42.640 that takes your child away from you. 296 00:10:42.640 --> 00:10:44.660 And I know that is a very rudimentary 297 00:10:44.660 --> 00:10:47.063 and basic example of social work 298 00:10:47.063 --> 00:10:49.270 and not all social workers are like that at all. 299 00:10:49.270 --> 00:10:51.560 But in terms of resource on what was available to them 300 00:10:51.560 --> 00:10:54.260 there was nothing that they could offer. 301 00:10:54.260 --> 00:10:55.470 The local authorities had to 302 00:10:55.470 --> 00:10:56.760 and it's home office money. 303 00:10:56.760 --> 00:10:59.480 They've got to do this kind of new approach 304 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:01.800 and a new vision and want to include responses 305 00:11:01.800 --> 00:11:03.622 to masculinity within that. 306 00:11:03.622 --> 00:11:08.210 And so we work with them to run an advisory hub 307 00:11:08.210 --> 00:11:09.490 where there's a surgery every week 308 00:11:09.490 --> 00:11:11.800 where social workers can bring fat cases. 309 00:11:11.800 --> 00:11:13.920 The families they're concerned about ask, 310 00:11:13.920 --> 00:11:15.450 what responses and approaches they should 311 00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:17.780 take in their practice but also what resources 312 00:11:17.780 --> 00:11:19.870 are available locally for each member 313 00:11:19.870 --> 00:11:21.750 of that family, the child, the mother 314 00:11:21.750 --> 00:11:24.667 and the father, whether he resides with them or not. 315 00:11:24.667 --> 00:11:26.290 And I think we through a combination 316 00:11:26.290 --> 00:11:28.300 of one-to-one work and delivering this care 317 00:11:28.300 --> 00:11:31.800 and death pilot which uses the father's children 318 00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:34.230 as a hook to bring about behavioral change. 319 00:11:34.230 --> 00:11:35.630 Hopefully we're beginning to do that. 320 00:11:35.630 --> 00:11:37.630 And I won't do it on that too much here 321 00:11:37.630 --> 00:11:39.730 but we can talk about, more talk about that more 322 00:11:39.730 --> 00:11:43.210 another time, maybe what we think needs to change. 323 00:11:43.210 --> 00:11:46.090 The stereotypical models of masculinity 324 00:11:46.090 --> 00:11:49.990 is that still pervade in our society, whilst we can. 325 00:11:49.990 --> 00:11:51.912 And when you want to look, there are loads 326 00:11:51.912 --> 00:11:53.810 and loads of progressive models of masculinity. 327 00:11:53.810 --> 00:11:55.790 They're also, as we all know from recent events 328 00:11:55.790 --> 00:11:57.670 across the pond, really, really kind 329 00:11:57.670 --> 00:11:59.960 of retrograde examples of what men should be 330 00:11:59.960 --> 00:12:01.964 and how they should behave. 331 00:12:01.964 --> 00:12:04.920 And, and those conflicting views really 332 00:12:04.920 --> 00:12:07.537 through the media fill the minds of our young people. 333 00:12:07.537 --> 00:12:09.900 And I think they need to see more young people 334 00:12:09.900 --> 00:12:12.270 who are as passionate as Lauren 335 00:12:12.270 --> 00:12:14.270 who wants to be involved as much as Laura and 336 00:12:14.270 --> 00:12:16.660 as examples of how they can speak of the many 337 00:12:16.660 --> 00:12:18.525 of the men and boys we work with 338 00:12:18.525 --> 00:12:19.358 from the they're from 339 00:12:19.358 --> 00:12:21.830 don't see that, or find it hard to identify with that. 340 00:12:21.830 --> 00:12:22.920 We think it's really important 341 00:12:22.920 --> 00:12:24.330 to support local authorities 342 00:12:24.330 --> 00:12:26.210 and other professionals both locally 343 00:12:26.210 --> 00:12:29.110 and nationally around their responses to father 344 00:12:29.110 --> 00:12:30.840 them their responses to boys and men. 345 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:31.970 We do that from training. 346 00:12:31.970 --> 00:12:33.420 We do that for trend three 347 00:12:33.420 --> 00:12:34.550 to try to influence commissioners 348 00:12:34.550 --> 00:12:37.160 to fund particular pieces of work. 349 00:12:37.160 --> 00:12:38.680 And I'm primarily as well trying 350 00:12:38.680 --> 00:12:40.390 to improve data collection because in terms 351 00:12:40.390 --> 00:12:42.350 of data collection around men and fathers 352 00:12:42.350 --> 00:12:45.710 there was kind of a really little out there. 353 00:12:45.710 --> 00:12:47.820 I think we collect data 354 00:12:47.820 --> 00:12:49.720 the only large institution that collect data is 355 00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:52.040 around fatherhood or the prison service 356 00:12:53.250 --> 00:12:54.960 because they do a questionnaire with all men 357 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:57.590 who get into these estates about whether 358 00:12:57.590 --> 00:12:58.900 or not they're a father. 359 00:12:58.900 --> 00:13:00.440 I don't think any other service does 360 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:02.100 that as a matter of course. 361 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.710 And those, the office for national statistics 362 00:13:04.710 --> 00:13:07.310 definitely doesn't have much on fathers. 363 00:13:07.310 --> 00:13:09.470 We try and influence kind of policy broadly 364 00:13:09.470 --> 00:13:12.347 by support in in our role of secretary 365 00:13:12.347 --> 00:13:14.900 at the APPG on fatherhood, up at parliament. 366 00:13:14.900 --> 00:13:16.530 And any of you are interested in kind 367 00:13:16.530 --> 00:13:18.250 of getting involved in stuff like that can go 368 00:13:18.250 --> 00:13:20.450 to our website and join that group 369 00:13:20.450 --> 00:13:21.440 and join the mailing list 370 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:22.780 and come along to see those meetings. 371 00:13:22.780 --> 00:13:23.613 I think it's really important. 372 00:13:23.613 --> 00:13:26.035 We have a wide view of people's views 373 00:13:26.035 --> 00:13:27.450 there because it can if you're not careful 374 00:13:27.450 --> 00:13:28.670 to be taken over by people who have 375 00:13:28.670 --> 00:13:31.390 got a specialist interest at one end of the thing, 376 00:13:31.390 --> 00:13:32.600 I want to throw paint at people 377 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:33.750 and talk about fathers, why it's, 378 00:13:33.750 --> 00:13:35.170 and whilst it's important. 379 00:13:35.170 --> 00:13:37.270 We're more interested in the rights of children. 380 00:13:37.270 --> 00:13:38.790 And it is a child's rights and know both of 381 00:13:38.790 --> 00:13:40.090 their parents and to have influence 382 00:13:40.090 --> 00:13:40.923 on both of their parents. 383 00:13:40.923 --> 00:13:42.900 So if you look at it slightly differently 384 00:13:42.900 --> 00:13:45.340 it changes the argument massively. 385 00:13:45.340 --> 00:13:46.560 And we also think it's really important 386 00:13:46.560 --> 00:13:49.134 to participate in research that other people are doing. 387 00:13:49.134 --> 00:13:51.870 University of East Anglia has done a longitudinal piece 388 00:13:51.870 --> 00:13:53.865 of work funded by Nuffield as well around counting fathers. 389 00:13:53.865 --> 00:13:57.370 Then looking at fathers who turn up repeatedly 390 00:13:57.370 --> 00:14:00.453 within children services or child protective services. 391 00:14:01.370 --> 00:14:03.440 And I think that's a really important piece 392 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:04.500 of work for us to do as well 393 00:14:04.500 --> 00:14:06.870 because if we don't understand the stories 394 00:14:06.870 --> 00:14:11.140 behind why these problematic men end up here 395 00:14:11.140 --> 00:14:12.170 we've got a real challenge. 396 00:14:12.170 --> 00:14:13.310 I mean, there was an interesting thing. 397 00:14:13.310 --> 00:14:15.223 I just want to make a point where we want to make is 398 00:14:15.223 --> 00:14:17.890 that when boys and pen, I suppose 399 00:14:17.890 --> 00:14:20.690 when males are boys, we, as a society, 400 00:14:20.690 --> 00:14:23.580 find it very easy or find it easier 401 00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:26.280 to find sympathy and feel sorry for them 402 00:14:26.280 --> 00:14:27.280 or understand their plight 403 00:14:27.280 --> 00:14:28.950 and want to do things for them. 404 00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:31.730 And especially race comes into this as well. 405 00:14:31.730 --> 00:14:33.010 Cause they're not pushing the boys we work 406 00:14:33.010 --> 00:14:34.680 with as well from ethnic minority groups. 407 00:14:34.680 --> 00:14:37.050 So, you know, race comes into this, the play 408 00:14:37.050 --> 00:14:39.902 and people find it very easy to offer support 409 00:14:39.902 --> 00:14:40.960 for like there needs to be helped when boys are 410 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:43.170 in primary school, when they get to that transitional age 411 00:14:43.170 --> 00:14:45.420 and start tending to teenagers and it'd be older 412 00:14:45.420 --> 00:14:47.820 they then become seen as kind of risk 413 00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:50.680 as I said earlier on as perpetrators as a bit scary. 414 00:14:50.680 --> 00:14:53.430 And that's about why the societal Western views 415 00:14:53.430 --> 00:14:55.450 of men from minority groups as well. 416 00:14:55.450 --> 00:14:57.150 And they end up kind of being marginalized 417 00:14:57.150 --> 00:14:58.660 by service because of that. 418 00:14:58.660 --> 00:15:00.751 And, we need to really go about changing 419 00:15:00.751 --> 00:15:02.620 that with all of the kind of events of the last year 420 00:15:02.620 --> 00:15:05.250 not just the pandemic, but also the heightened awareness 421 00:15:05.250 --> 00:15:08.090 of racism and in society. 422 00:15:08.090 --> 00:15:10.590 Those two factors together have really kind of 423 00:15:10.590 --> 00:15:11.700 shifted what we've done. 424 00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:14.220 So in terms of our own internal research 425 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:17.650 on our work we we've done different bits and pieces. 426 00:15:17.650 --> 00:15:19.573 And fundamentally what we've shown is 427 00:15:19.573 --> 00:15:20.970 that when you support fathers, 428 00:15:20.970 --> 00:15:22.640 that these key moments in their lives, 429 00:15:22.640 --> 00:15:24.100 both to engage with our services, 430 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:26.070 but with wider services that are provided 431 00:15:26.070 --> 00:15:27.840 by local authorities where they live, 432 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:28.920 whether that be early years 433 00:15:28.920 --> 00:15:32.243 help social care services, stuff around job work 434 00:15:32.243 --> 00:15:35.140 and back to work services, et cetera, et cetera. 435 00:15:35.140 --> 00:15:38.230 What you'll find is, the father becomes more involved. 436 00:15:38.230 --> 00:15:40.430 He starts to reflect on his own behavior more, 437 00:15:40.430 --> 00:15:42.100 and that that lens starts to influence 438 00:15:42.100 --> 00:15:44.240 their children's development. 439 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:46.780 They move away from being authoritarian 440 00:15:46.780 --> 00:15:47.930 toward being authoritative. 441 00:15:47.930 --> 00:15:49.560 And that's really important, because he 442 00:15:49.560 --> 00:15:52.060 actually starts to move away from that. 443 00:15:52.060 --> 00:15:53.350 Some would say toxic, I don't really 444 00:15:53.350 --> 00:15:55.755 like the word toxic but problematic masculinity 445 00:15:55.755 --> 00:15:57.380 that was associated with how 446 00:15:57.380 --> 00:16:00.520 we were in the 20th and 19th century 447 00:16:00.520 --> 00:16:02.400 which is not where men are today. 448 00:16:02.400 --> 00:16:04.003 When we want an equal society. 449 00:16:06.070 --> 00:16:07.670 There are some lists of some of the wider research 450 00:16:07.670 --> 00:16:08.503 that we've been involved in 451 00:16:08.503 --> 00:16:09.970 and some great stuff that's still going on. 452 00:16:09.970 --> 00:16:10.970 Some of it in leads. 453 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.160 Porter's first presentation talked 454 00:16:14.160 --> 00:16:16.640 about the Leeds council and how they're working. 455 00:16:16.640 --> 00:16:19.030 They have in terms of identifying what 456 00:16:19.030 --> 00:16:21.620 their residents think is important. 457 00:16:21.620 --> 00:16:23.600 Young dads groups have run there for many, 458 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:25.470 years and have been linked to research products 459 00:16:25.470 --> 00:16:27.310 up there because they listened to their communities 460 00:16:27.310 --> 00:16:29.870 when they said and particularly when young mum said 461 00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:31.187 and we find it's an artwork, look, it's great. 462 00:16:31.187 --> 00:16:33.200 That there's stuff in place for me. 463 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.450 There should be more, and it should be a better quality 464 00:16:35.450 --> 00:16:38.440 but there needs to be some stuff in place for him as well 465 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:40.030 whether I'm with him or whether he's my ex 466 00:16:40.030 --> 00:16:41.210 because he's going to have an influence 467 00:16:41.210 --> 00:16:42.950 on me and our kids moving forward. 468 00:16:42.950 --> 00:16:44.310 He still needs help as well. 469 00:16:44.310 --> 00:16:47.260 And I think need to be applauded for that work. 470 00:16:47.260 --> 00:16:49.110 So as do many other areas where there's still 471 00:16:49.110 --> 00:16:52.590 goes ahead and I'll just finish in terms 472 00:16:52.590 --> 00:16:54.470 of the slides in saying I've got, 473 00:16:54.470 --> 00:16:56.300 some testimony here from members 474 00:16:56.300 --> 00:16:58.500 of the community themselves, and you talk about, 475 00:16:58.500 --> 00:17:00.050 how important they found the groups 476 00:17:00.050 --> 00:17:01.970 how they valued the group, because everyone listened 477 00:17:01.970 --> 00:17:04.090 to me and didn't judge me and offered good advice 478 00:17:04.090 --> 00:17:07.050 which was a contradiction that his experiences 479 00:17:07.050 --> 00:17:09.900 before that with services, of not being listened to 480 00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:12.350 or everyone kind of making decisions about him 481 00:17:12.350 --> 00:17:15.480 and for him without actually knowing the his side 482 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:17.380 of the story or his background. 483 00:17:17.380 --> 00:17:19.230 The support that you defy was working 484 00:17:19.230 --> 00:17:21.620 in the groups gave me helped me to speak my mind, 485 00:17:21.620 --> 00:17:23.370 show my emotions and look for solutions 486 00:17:23.370 --> 00:17:26.057 other than from within myself, which again 487 00:17:26.057 --> 00:17:28.490 for me totally encapsulates the 488 00:17:28.490 --> 00:17:31.190 that the masculinity that men have been given stiff up 489 00:17:31.190 --> 00:17:32.920 especially British men, stiff upper lip 490 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:34.150 do things for yourself. 491 00:17:34.150 --> 00:17:36.350 Don't ask for help as opposed to actually 492 00:17:36.350 --> 00:17:38.560 be open express your weakness. 493 00:17:38.560 --> 00:17:39.920 It spreads the idea that you need help 494 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:42.686 and engage with people who are offering it to you. 495 00:17:42.686 --> 00:17:45.913 Finding the as well as such has helped me to 496 00:17:45.913 --> 00:17:47.160 understand how to maintain composure 497 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:48.730 in times of stress and conflict. 498 00:17:48.730 --> 00:17:50.930 And for marginalized fathers who were engaged 499 00:17:50.930 --> 00:17:53.920 with services who sometimes find 500 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.378 that engagement services is really challenging 501 00:17:56.378 --> 00:17:58.730 and could find it easier to just kind of walk away 502 00:17:58.730 --> 00:18:02.030 and leave that and leave people unaware of what's going on. 503 00:18:02.030 --> 00:18:04.800 It's really important to have that idea 504 00:18:04.800 --> 00:18:05.780 that someone's going to stand 505 00:18:05.780 --> 00:18:07.690 up for you advocate for your support 506 00:18:07.690 --> 00:18:10.600 you to get your voice heard not only 507 00:18:10.600 --> 00:18:13.130 in your case and what's happening for you personally, 508 00:18:13.130 --> 00:18:15.470 but in terms of as the other present, 509 00:18:15.470 --> 00:18:18.290 the said shaping what goes on in your local area, 510 00:18:18.290 --> 00:18:19.341 moving forward, 511 00:18:19.341 --> 00:18:23.670 The idea at this, with the kind of short-term funding 512 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:27.850 we've got the idea that, someone sends me a referral today. 513 00:18:27.850 --> 00:18:29.440 And within three months I was supposed to have 514 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:31.350 engaged this man and turned around years 515 00:18:31.350 --> 00:18:34.300 and years of inequality and problematic behavior 516 00:18:34.300 --> 00:18:35.560 because we've only got one years 517 00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:38.210 of funding for this project is I'm realistic. 518 00:18:38.210 --> 00:18:40.040 By the time communities are ready to engage 519 00:18:40.040 --> 00:18:42.250 and start to trust them a project 520 00:18:42.250 --> 00:18:44.730 often the funding's gone, it doesn't exist anymore. 521 00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:47.250 So I think in terms of working with local authorities, 522 00:18:47.250 --> 00:18:48.083 I totally agree. 523 00:18:48.083 --> 00:18:49.460 We need to kind of devote funding 524 00:18:49.460 --> 00:18:52.020 down to the community to help them make decisions 525 00:18:52.020 --> 00:18:54.810 about what they want but often those 526 00:18:54.810 --> 00:18:56.370 who need services the most are 527 00:18:56.370 --> 00:18:59.130 those least likely to put their hand up and say 528 00:18:59.130 --> 00:19:00.820 I've got something to say here. 529 00:19:00.820 --> 00:19:03.262 They're the ones that we need to make, 530 00:19:03.262 --> 00:19:05.040 go out, find, engage support with 531 00:19:05.040 --> 00:19:09.090 their immediate needs back to Maslow, again 532 00:19:09.090 --> 00:19:10.260 support their immediate needs. 533 00:19:10.260 --> 00:19:12.100 So they're able then to move further up 534 00:19:12.100 --> 00:19:14.770 that tree trunk and actually say, well, this is now 535 00:19:14.770 --> 00:19:16.890 I'm not hungry and now I'm not cold anymore. 536 00:19:16.890 --> 00:19:19.290 I can start to express what's happened to me before 537 00:19:19.290 --> 00:19:21.120 and what I want to happen to me in the future. 538 00:19:21.120 --> 00:19:24.290 And I think that approach is what we aim for. 539 00:19:24.290 --> 00:19:28.120 And hopefully kind of that really abridged version of 540 00:19:28.120 --> 00:19:31.233 kind of the stuff we do helps you understand where we are. 541 00:19:31.233 --> 00:19:33.560 And, and I also just finally, if you're 542 00:19:33.560 --> 00:19:35.540 if you don't mind, Susan, I've been 543 00:19:35.540 --> 00:19:37.100 doing this work since the mid two thousands 544 00:19:37.100 --> 00:19:39.510 when there was a national teenage pregnancy strategy 545 00:19:39.510 --> 00:19:41.970 under a different Stripe of government 546 00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:44.730 which was problematic in some ways we needed to in Britain 547 00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:46.310 because we had the highest teenage pregnancy rates 548 00:19:46.310 --> 00:19:48.090 across the whole of Western Europe. 549 00:19:48.090 --> 00:19:51.420 But we allowed that ring fence money way allowed to do 550 00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:53.660 to local practitioners on the ground was to 551 00:19:53.660 --> 00:19:55.380 actually develop services that were tailored 552 00:19:55.380 --> 00:19:57.020 to the needs of the people in their area. 553 00:19:57.020 --> 00:20:01.450 And out of that work with young fathers became important. 554 00:20:01.450 --> 00:20:04.010 We were allowed to we were given forms to meet 555 00:20:04.010 --> 00:20:05.840 as third sector organizations together. 556 00:20:05.840 --> 00:20:08.987 We have statutory services come up with joint work plans. 557 00:20:08.987 --> 00:20:11.410 The work I was doing in one South London Borough 558 00:20:11.410 --> 00:20:13.100 as part of a virtual team meeting the needs 559 00:20:13.100 --> 00:20:14.800 of young parents was evaluated 560 00:20:14.800 --> 00:20:17.360 by the young foundation as an outstanding example 561 00:20:17.360 --> 00:20:19.370 of how services should work together 562 00:20:19.370 --> 00:20:21.900 within two or three years austerity head. 563 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:24.100 And our whole thing was dismantled. 564 00:20:24.100 --> 00:20:27.370 And I think 10 years later here we are in 2021 565 00:20:27.370 --> 00:20:28.630 and we're still trying to build 566 00:20:28.630 --> 00:20:31.650 back the level of service provision we had in 2011. 567 00:20:31.650 --> 00:20:34.290 And I think whilst we found medical ways 568 00:20:34.290 --> 00:20:36.900 of reducing our teenage pregnancy statistics in terms 569 00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:39.550 of the moral imperative to support younger parents, 570 00:20:39.550 --> 00:20:42.630 to reduce inequality inter-generationally 571 00:20:42.630 --> 00:20:44.110 we've kind of moved away from that. 572 00:20:44.110 --> 00:20:46.508 And I think for both women and men 573 00:20:46.508 --> 00:20:49.035 we all need to kind of have a better approach 574 00:20:49.035 --> 00:20:51.060 to that and work more collaboratively together. 575 00:20:51.060 --> 00:20:52.910 So I think there are more on my time 576 00:20:52.910 --> 00:20:56.160 so I'll leave it and ask questions that come in.